21 Kat Schaaf

Narrative Summary

Interview with Alen Kudumovic

When Alen Kudumovic was growing up in Sarajevo, Bosnia, people of all different nationalities and religions lived together in peace. He talked about how beautiful his country was with beautiful nature and beautiful seasons. He spoke about how due to the communist government, everyone felt taken care of. He was raised to believe that everyone is the same regardless of religion or nationality. However, things abruptly changed when he turned eighteen years old and hateful rhetoric from politicians began to overwhelm the area. Soon, people started to distinguish themselves from others that did not share the same religious and ethnic identities as them. Alen recalls not understanding what it meant to be a Muslim. He had to have his parents explain to him that his friends, the friends he would go to school and play soccer with, were different than him because of their different religions and nationalities. Politicians used past conflicts such as the World War II to inspire people’s hatred of those that were not the same as themselves.

According to Alen, the conflict in Bosnia (formerly Yugoslavia) was mainly due to the political idea of a greater Serbia. Therefore, the Serbians, with the help of the Yugoslav army tried to take control over the country by targeting Croats and Bosnian Muslims. Alen described this as ethnic cleansing. Since Alen is a Muslim, he was one of the ethnic groups that was targeted by the Serbians. He described the city during war time as being bombarded every day with attacks from the Yugoslav army and Serbian forces. People who refused to split up based on ethnicity and religion were also targeted. Alen’s hometown of Sarajevo was under siege and no one was able to get in or out. Alen lived in Sarajevo for about four years of the conflict before deciding to flee.

Alen recalled his long and difficult journey of trying to get out of Sarajevo while it was under siege. He left by himself with only a small bag of supplies. He was able to sell some of his things to get $300 to pay for his journey. Even though the city was closed off, there was a very small tunnel dug under the airport to smuggle people out. Only select people were able to utilize this tunnel but Alen was able to gain access. He crawled through the tunnel that went through enemy territory to the Croatian border. He first stopped in Mostar, Bosnia where he remained for about a week. After this, he was able to pay a family friend to smuggle through another area of enemy territory until he reached Croatia where he arrived at a refugee camp.

Alen had a very unique experience in the Croatian refugee camp because at first, he was not able to obtain refugee status. Instead, he had to secretly live at the refugee camp which was not allowed. He had a friend in the camp who was a Croat. Croats and Muslims were supposed to be enemies, but this did not prevent this person from being kind enough to help Alen remain in the camp unnoticed. This friend helped Alen to get food, and during the day he would go outside of the camp to find work in construction. Alen described life in the camp as challenging due to the conflicts between groups within the camp. The different ethnic groups that were all fighting in this war all had to live together in this camp and tensions persisted due to the pain and loss that some people felt at the hands of the other groups. Eventually, Alen was able to obtain refugee status by means of his friend’s connections. He talked about this as a huge relief because he no longer had to hide and live in fear that he would be found and sent back to Bosnia to fight in the war.

Eventually, Alen went through the resettlement process. He described this process as a breeze compared to what he went through in Bosnia and in the refugee camp. In order for him to have an interview with an American officer, he had to travel three hours from Pula, Croatia to the capital of Zagreb. There were six months of interviews and paperwork before he was eventually resettled in Des Moines, Iowa where his aunt lived.

As soon as Alen got to the United States he was driven to start his new life. He was put in an apartment complex where there was a very small community of other Bosnians. He was resettled by IOM and was given food stamps and health insurance for one month. The agency payed his rent for three months and he was able to purchase a car. He did not want to rely on assistance so he immediately went out to find a job. He did not know English and recalled going into several places and just saying “job” in order to get work. This eventually worked and he got his first job as a janitor in a retirement home. He then went on to get a job at a factory.

Even though he was fortunate enough to have prior experiences with the US through movies and documentaries, Alen recalled having many misconceptions about what life in the US would be like. He did not realize how open it would be and he was surprised about how kind people were. This is because the movies and documentaries that he watched showed violence, gangsters, and crime. In reality, people in Iowa would say hi to him when he walked by and people left their doors and cars unlocked. He also didn’t understand racism towards African Americans before coming here. His first friends were African American and they taught him about how prevalent racism is here in the US. This taught him that despite his refugee status, his whiteness gave him certain privileges.

When talking about discrimination against him due to his refugee status, Alen said that if he had faced any he does not remember it because it has not been important to him or his life. He noted that he has gotten a few negative comments but these comments are fueled by the other person’s own anger and little to do with him. He said that he has not let these types of comments change his view of society. Even his experience as a Muslim in the United States has been mostly positive due to the large Muslim community in Cedar Rapids where he now lives.

Alen described one of the hardest parts of adapting to US culture as learning English. He had no formal English training so he picked up English due to the need to communicate with his co-workers. The problem with this was that the factory workers that he learned English from spoke exclusively in slang consisting of swearing which is not generally acceptable in most places. He didn’t really realize this until later when he went back to college at Mount Mercy University. He recalled everyone being very kind to him as he learned English. They were patient and would overlook small mistakes and help him to improve. He also noted that assimilation into American culture happened pretty fast because it was a way to move on and leave the pain from war behind. However, he talked about how he was able to continue some part of his culture through music and celebration of Bosnian holidays while still embracing new traditions such as the celebration of Christmas.

After two years, Alen was able to obtain a green card and after five years he was able to go through the naturalization process to become a US citizen. He said that he did not wait a minute to get either of those because he had grown so attached to the people and community and he loved what America stood for. He was very happy when he became a citizen because it added so much security to his life by knowing that it all could not be taken away from him. However, he said that the hardest part about living in the United States was that he has always felt like he is in-between two countries. He has had to worry about his family in Bosnia and be ready at a moment’s notice to go help them in some way. This has led to challenges because it has been hard for him to commit to things such as college or getting his master’s degree. Despite this, he still does not regret his decision to flee Bosnia. He has even gone to college at Mount Mercy College and gotten his master’s degree in business administration.

Alen and I had a conversation about how Bosnia before the war is similar to the political state of the United States now. He talked about how he can see how tensions and divisions between groups are worsening in the United States like they did in Yugoslavia before the war. Also, he has seen a rise in rhetoric centered around selling fear of different ethnicities and religions. He noted that he just hopes that the system in the United States is strong enough to keep conflict from getting as bad as it did in Bosnia.

Empathy is at the heart of how Alen’s refugee experience shaped him as a person. He said that it gave him another level of emotional intelligence to understand other people. He learned that you can’t judge others because you don’t know what they are going through. He also said that through this experience he learned an appreciation for the differences between people and that he wouldn’t change his experience because without it he would feel entitled and empty.

Personal Reflection

I had the privilege to conduct an interview with Alen Kudumovic, a refugee from Bosnia. During this interview we talked about many things such as what life was like in Sarajevo before the war, his experience in the Croatian refugee camp, the resettlement process, and what life is like as a refugee in the United States. I found Alen’s story to be very intriguing and unique. I was also very inspired by Alen’s positivity and outlook on life.

The first thing that I learned from this interview was that Alen’s experience as a refugee gave him a unique lens through which to view the world. Due to his experience of living in a country that valued and appreciated diversity that changed to a country divided by ethnicity and religion made him see how rhetoric and propaganda can be used to rip people apart and destroy communities. I think that this puts him a unique position as a US citizen today because he can recognize problems in the US that are similar to things that were happening when the conflict began in Bosnia. Through this, he can also teach others in the United States about the importance of unity within our country. This was significant to me because it helped me to see the United States in a different light. I can see growing polarization and hateful rhetoric going on here, but before this interview I hadn’t thought about the long-term repercussions.

Alen’s comparison of Bosnia before the war to the current political climate in the United States was a big wake up call for me. From what he described I could see a stark comparison between the two that was quite scary. Of course, this doesn’t mean that something like the Bosnian war is definitely going to happen here. This did however teach me that with increased polarization and hateful rhetoric towards minority groups, there is a lot of work to be done in the United States to ensure that it doesn’t get to the point that it did in the former Yugoslavia.

The next thing that I learned from this interview was how different refugee experiences can be among people fleeing from the same place for similar reasons. Alen was the third refugee from Bosnia who I had the privilege of listening to while in this class and his story was completely different from the others. Particularly, his experience of having to live undercover in the refugee camp was something different from any other refugee I have heard from. This helped to change my perspective and understanding of what life was like in the refugee camp. He did not go into detail about why he was not given refugee status at first, and that is probably the one outstanding question that I still have regarding his story.

Also, Alen’s articulation of the conflict within the refugee camp took me by surprise. I imaged refugee camps as communities where people came together due to their shared experiences. In the refugee camp that Alen was him however, he described continued conflict and pain that divided people within the camp. Despite this, Alen’s story about his friend that helped to hide him was inspiring because the two of them were supposed to be enemies. Instead they saw through their differences to help each other out. This gave me hope that conflict can never truly divide people completely.

The last thing that I learned from this interview was that some refugees wouldn’t change the things that they have been through because of the positive effects that they have had on their lives. In Alen’s case, he has gone through great hardship but has chosen to allow those experiences to benefit him by giving a more positive view on live, have more empathy for others, and an appreciation for diversity. One quote that stuck with me from this interview was when he said, “I would be empty without these experiences.” This comment took me by surprise because I naively thought that refugees would have chosen to erase these negative experiences from their lives if they got the chance. However, in Alen’s case, he welcomed the hardship and the lessons that he learned from them which I found to be very inspiring. This helps me to view my own life in a different way and be grateful for the challenges that I face instead of resentful.

One other thing that surprised me about this interview was Alen’s answer to the question about discrimination in the United States. Due to the current political climate I had assumed that his answer would be much different. Instead he showed how accepting people in Iowa have generally been and I think that this really came through when he was talking about the process of learning English and adapting to US culture.

This interview process overall gave me so much more respect for refugees. Having the opportunity to speak to someone who has gone through these challenges face-to-face has allowed me to understand the strength and perseverance that refugees have. I am grateful to have gone through this interview process and I am very thankful for Alen taking the time to be open with me about his life and his journey.